Advice and Support for South Africans Immigrating to New Zealand

South Africans Going To New Zealand

Author Topic: Tolerance Please  (Read 14184 times)

Offline Nolan

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Tolerance Please
« on: July 22, 2010, 09:26:05 am »
I am very concerned lately at the lack of tolerance of other's views especially of those that are unhappy in NZ  :-\

We are all here from very different backgrounds and places and are all experiencing the move in very different ways. Most of us, including myself, are very happy here. This doesn't mean we are all happy here and those following us may also find that NZ is not for them. We need to let everybody air their experiences here or we will be lying to those following us by feeding them the tour guide version of NZ. We have all worked hard through the years to paint the warts and all picture of NZ, not just the rosy side. That cannot change!!!

I think that if the "happy camp", myself included, had to start mentioning things we are not 100% happy about, we would be moaning from now till next year. We have just decided that compared to SA, the things that are not 100% here are a small price to pay and are willing to live with it because that was the mental decision we made.

Others are not willing to live with those niggles and we have to please respect that by not shooting those folks down. If you don't agree, say so and give valid reasons for not agreeing, eg. the health care system is great here because reason reason reason. Calling the person that complained about something they didn't like in NZ a snob, ungreatfull, etc. serves no purpose but to stop the unhappy guys from airing their experiences for the benefit of others for fear of being shot down.

The guys from the "unhappy camp", please realise that the majority of folks here ARE happy with their move and will have a tendancy to defend their decision to move to NZ. Just as you encountered folks in SA that couldn't understand why you were leaving or got upset with you for saying SA sucked when you left SA.

It IS however important that you continue to tell us what you find has sucked for you in NZ, so those that have not arrived here yet can be aware of what folks have not liked about NZ. All I ask is that you don't just complain for the sake of complaining eg. saying NZ sucks is not productive, but saying something like the health care system sucks because reason reason reason is O0

That way we can discuss it productively or be made aware of a shortcoming we didn't know about.

Getting into "i'm right, you're wrong" type arguments are pointless as you are not going to be convinced otherwise and neither is the other party. State what sucks and your factual reasons, or state your factual reasons why you think xyz doesn't suck and then leave it at that.

Offline thombatt

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2010, 09:29:10 am »
Good on ya    In my best kiwi accent

SA Going to NZ Advice Forum

Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2010, 09:29:10 am »

Offline Chan in Wellington

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2010, 09:37:44 am »
I am really appreciating the good and bad views, I don't want to go over with rose-tinted glasses and get the shock of my life, so thanks for both!! 
'The only difference between a rut and a grave, is the depth'.

Offline Savayla

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2010, 10:03:07 am »
I have to agree.  To the one that is perceived to be "unhappy" and thinks she is of a "higher" class , I have had a long phone chat with her, and I think she came across all wrong in her very first post.  She mentioned her ills, but they were far more than just that.  She downplayed them.  She is unhappy for many reasons, and why not ?  I love New Zealand.  She doesn't.  That doesn't make me right and her wrong.  If we were all the same, what a boring world this would be. 

Offline Centurionite

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2010, 10:25:28 am »
Thanks Tanya

People do seem to get the wrong impression of me - at least you know a little more.

And thanks Nolan for making this comment, I also feel that it is important for people to get both sides of the coin as everyone has lived a different life and come from a different background with different expectations of life.

Offline maanhaarleeu

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2010, 10:28:16 am »
Nolan, you have a good point.  Actually before I came to NZ I really wanted to read about the negatives as well therefore I agree with you.

To hear the negatives from ex SAners make so much more sense than listening to people from the UK or even kiwis themselves complain about the mundainest of things.
Auckland NZ, Howick

Offline Happy Expat

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2010, 10:47:46 am »
I just popped in for a quick check to see what's happening in NZ, so I can't say too much. Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and say more...

I am one of those people who have had the priviledge of living in 4 different countries, born in SA, moved to the UK in 2001, then NZ 2005. I'm now living in Australia and not because I didn't like NZ, we loved it and even watching the rugby the other night, we both had a tear and feel very patriotic towards NZ still. We only left because NZ couldn't give us the lifestyle we so badly wanted and my hubby had got to a dead end with jobs (long story). We are very happy to be in Aussie and we feel that finally we have found what we were looking for (albeit early days still). Before we moved to NZ, we lived in the UK. We left SA in such a hurry and chose the country we thought would be the easiest and quickest to get into, but that proved to be a huge mistake. We hated every one of the 4 and half years in the UK. When we finally decided to leave we were treated so badly by other SAn's that did exactly what Nolan was just talking about. It hurt like crazy! We had made a mistake and we were trying to change a situation that didn't suit us as a family, yet we were being put down by others? We are not rich or even well off, we have just been very lucky. We have had little bits of help from family members (ie, bought our air tickets) and complete strangers (help with furniture etc). Each time we moved, we have started with almost nothing and built up, only to sell off everything to pay for the next move. Some people think we are nuts (we do too!! ;)) but each move we have found that we are getting closer to what we wanted. Now finally we have found it. Yes, it's been and expensive run, but moving around like us, is not for everybody. Some people believe in staying in one place and only move if it's life or death, ie leaving SA. Yet, they feel that once away, they should stay put for good? It's just different strokes. We have loved moving around and meeting different people, making friends and experiencing so much. I have said a few times, that some of us are settlers and some of us are explorers, we are the later!!
IMHO, you can't judge people unless you are living thier life, which you never will, so just support their choices and you may even make a friend for life!! ;)

That's my 2c...... worth for now ;) ;D


SA Going to NZ Advice Forum

Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2010, 10:47:46 am »

Offline Nolan

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2010, 10:53:05 am »
Hiya Linda, you really do need to start a thread where you can post us some pics of OZ ;)

Offline Happy Expat

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2010, 11:01:29 am »
Hey Nolan, I know I must get some pic's. We've only just got our stuff (6 boxes we brought with) and our camera charger, etc was in them. :blush:
I will get pic's soon, promise O0


Offline frodo/maya

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2010, 11:45:36 am »
 Nolan --O0 O0

Offline SaKiwiBoer

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 07:47:18 pm »
Well said  O0 , Nolan and Happy Expat.
Will try and be more  :flowers: , if you know what I mean... ??
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Offline magusta

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 10:32:37 pm »
as you've mentioned and from what i can see from 'newbies' commenting, a balanced view is important. i have lived both sides of the fence. as a happy and as a realistic camper (my perspective).

my transition from happiness to leaving was a gradual one. seeing my colleagues in many other countries (not only SA) progress and the rate of their progression compared to the lackadaisical pace and regression i experienced fueled my 'let's get the hell out of here'. i'm not only 'comparing' life here to life in SA, since i've been to *many* different countries and experienced many different facets of life.

i take no joy from seeing bullies stomp around, the 'debate' yesterday turned into a schoolyard brawl and i've never been a fan of kicking someone who's down. especially not a woman. the crowd grew and jeered. chivalry did seem to die some....anyway, this post is not aimed at inciting another riot, but to agree to your request for clear, balanced, factual discussions.

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 10:32:37 pm »

Offline spnzjobs

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 11:29:48 pm »
Hi Nolan

I strongly support the call for tolerance and well considered posts that actually inform as opposed to ones that break others down. You gain nothing by breaking down! But you gain plenty by posting in a considered manner, as you are more likely to obtain replying posts that will probably offer solutions or mitigating info that has the potential to resolve issues and this is what I believe this forum should be about - inform and assist others if you can.

Thanks Nolan :clap:

John from SPNZ Recruitment

Offline thombatt

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 12:04:53 am »
This is a very analytical way of trying to see things but I will attempt it anyway

When I did ann evaluation of moving it went something like this

Attribute   How important is this to me         RSA score (out of 100)   RSA weighted score    NZ potential score (out of 100) NZ weighted score

Att 1

I then went through each attribute (e.g. price of housing, how much disruption to life, job prospects, kids education). I then marked how important this is for me. I then scored RSA. By multiplying how important the attribute is and the score I get a weighted score. I then tried to score NZ and developed the same weighting (note the how important this is to me should be the same for both NZ and RSA).

By going through this for each attribute and then adding the weighted scores up one gets a view by how much NZ scores against RSA (and the other way round). One should opt for the country with the highest weighted score. They decision to move to NZ might be a decreasing RSA score of important attributes.

An eg might be someone with kids and someone without. Person with kids may rank childs education as a high importance attribute, RSA would probably rate lower than NZ. Childs education trhen forms part of the total score. Some one without children would rate the importance as zero, the weighted score for both NZ and RSA would therefore be zero, no matter how they scored.

What the fight has got into is the fact that people are arguing about the score of each attribute and cannot understand why other people don't rank them the same as them. there is also a difference on how each person is scoring both NZ and RSA, which then has a MULTIPLIER effect on how much each attribute should be scored for comparison.

Other nuances are that people in NZ can now score on actual experinece rather than what they thought they would score. Now if actual scores for NZ go down relative to RSA vs what they score was thought to be and NZ as a result ranks lower than RSA, then that person will be silly if they do not reconsider their move.

We should remember that people place a higher weighting than other on each of the attributes AND will score them differently. What this forum is about is allowing people who have not yet moved an idea of how they would score NZ performance to each of the attributes they have selected. That is the true value of the forum.

Hope this makes sence
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 12:16:40 am by thombatt »

Offline NicholaM2

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2010, 12:10:33 am »
Hi Nolan

Thanks for your call for tolerance. I often go on about how happy we are here, and am worried I create the wrong impression because I don't mention the negatives (which there are!). The problem is that the threads on the forum called "What you don't like about New Zealand" end up sounding just as one-sided. Maybe we should start a thread (if it doesn't already exist) called: your top 5 favourite and least favourite things about living in NZ?!