Advice and Support for South Africans Immigrating to New Zealand

South Africans Going To New Zealand

Author Topic: Tolerance Please  (Read 12357 times)

Offline Feather

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2010, 12:25:47 am »
Well said Departed.

Offline Centurionite

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2010, 12:53:55 am »
Well said Departed. 

I just hope some of the people in SA think very long and hard before making decisons for their future.

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2010, 12:53:55 am »

Offline magusta

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2010, 03:06:41 am »
+1, I enjoy your point of view Departed.

Offline Chan in Wellington

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2010, 07:00:47 am »
Great post !!  I'm sure those Saffers serious about leaving for NZ have done a vast amount of research and know what they are getting into.
'The only difference between a rut and a grave, is the depth'.

Offline Centurionite

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2010, 07:14:20 am »
No amount of research can prepare you for the reality of 'life' in NZ, once you are passed the 'honeymoon' phase.

Offline Chan in Wellington

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2010, 07:25:59 am »
:( Not very encouraging
'The only difference between a rut and a grave, is the depth'.

Offline SusanJ

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2010, 07:28:49 am »
No amount of research can prepare you for the reality of 'life' in NZ, once you are passed the 'honeymoon' phase.
And the "happy camp" point of view there is:
No amount of naysaying and damnation can prepare you for the reality of just how free and amazing one's LIFE can be once they've gotten past the "I'm missing Ouma rusks, All Gold and Precious" phase.  :2funny: :2funny:
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SA Going to NZ Advice Forum

Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2010, 07:28:49 am »

Offline Anna007

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2010, 07:55:50 am »
really enjoyed that Departed  8)
"What we see depends mainly on what we look for"

Offline ronaldd

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2010, 08:42:35 am »
No amount of research can prepare you for the reality of 'life' in NZ, once you are passed the 'honeymoon' phase.

I don't think this is negative as such. 
Day to day living is just day to day living.  Sure its a pretty place, but once you are settled and become used to everything, the novelty runs out and you still have to go to work,  raise kids,  make sure your bills are paid and all that without having family around.  I agree,  you can do all the resource in the world but no one tells you about the things you find out on this side... No immigration agent will say to you that you will be considered an immigrant for the rest of your life,  regardless if you speak the lingo and behave like a kiwi,  your accent still makes you "different" and being different for the rest of your life becomes old,  really fast.
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Offline Departed

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2010, 09:02:15 am »
And the "happy camp" point of view there is:
No amount of naysaying and damnation can prepare you for the reality of just how free and amazing one's LIFE can be once they've gotten past the "I'm missing Ouma rusks, All Gold and Precious" phase.  :2funny: :2funny:

Ahhh ... those  :2funny:   :2funny:   :2funny:  again as an attempt to tone down (what can be perceived as) a stab or a sarcastic comment eh?

Just say what you want to say and say it the way you mean it. We're supposed to be adults or at least mature.

Us South Africans should really stop being so "dear in a spotlight" and be more assertive. This "arme Afrikaner" or "backward South African" or "Jirre ek's so bly ek mag hier bly meneer" image is bollocks. From what I've seen, and bar our previous racist regime, we can compete with the best in the world and have nothing to feel inferior about.
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 09:08:30 am by Departed »

Offline Nolan

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2010, 09:10:08 am »
Departed I can honestly say that I am having difficulty understanding your post, maybe due to a hard day at the office...dunno.

I can see that you are in the "unhappy camp", but what exactly are you saying?

This is a valiant gesture on your part
That because there are sites like Expats Exposed that nobody should be allowed to post negatives about NZ here. We from day one posted the good and the bad here, it was just that lately some folks were attacked for noting things they found "wrong" with NZ which had the potential to filter the type of information available to potential immigrants who are trying to make an informed decision about immigrating to NZ.

or

However, distress pre-empts relief. And relief is a temporary reward and welcome improvement from being distraught. But relief wears off eventually and what keeps most of us 'inspired' and grateful is not that life in NZ is so amazingly wonderful but that things in RSA are that bad.
That NZ is rubbish and those of us that are happy here are all living in the "honeymoon phase"?

If you mean most South Africans that emigrated to NZ I will have to disagree.
At last count there were around 42 000 ex-South Africans in New Zealand. By your statement you are basically saying that, i dunno what percentage your "most" means, but I will assume it's 80% for arguement sake. If that is the case then there are around 33600 unhappy South African who are unhappily living the "relieved" life here in NZ as opposed to around 8400 who are happily living the "relieved" life here. Something doesn't add up for me with that statement. I just can't image so many folks choosing to torture themselves like that, especially considering that fact that most of us here are well educated and most probably had a choice of more than one country to emigrate to, and currently still have that choice at our disposal.

The "majority" on this site can happily reign over the "rebels". Or be defensive rather(!). Defensiveness is usually a sign of uncertainty or insecurity or a desperate cover-up. Perhaps "defend" was a rather unfortunate choice of word. I'm sure you meant something else. No matter.

The majority on this site will always be those that are happy with NZ simply because that is the focus of this site - to enable those that have already made the move to NZ and are happy here, to assist those that are looking at immigrating here or have chosen to immigrate here. The site is littered with the good, the bad and the ugly about NZ specifically so that folks still in SA can make an informed decision and I don't think there is anybody on the site still in SA that would want it any other way. However this site remains primarily for those that are happy here / happy to move here and believe that NZ IS the right immigration destination for them. So yes defend was the correct word, we truly believe that NZ IS best for us, in fact better than the other possible destinations we have the option of moving to.

The "unhappy camp", ie., those that are in NZ and now want to leave are welcome on the site and their input encouraged to assist those still in SA to make an informed decision. I hope Centurionite will allow me to us her as an example, [Centurionite, if not please PM me and I'll think of another example]. They are unhappy here due to personal circumstances and certain expectations which they believed would be met in NZ, those expectations have not panned out for them and they are willing to share those personal details here so that others can be aware of the problems / disappointments they have faced and learn from them. Centurionite does however still post about the positives and agree that NZ is the better option than SA, NZ is just not the best option for them personally. There are also many other posts on the same topics which Centurionite is unhappy about, which tell folks otherwise, so we have a refreshing balance which folks can read and then decide for themselves. If somebody had to come on the site with nothing positive to say about NZ and their sole purpose on the site seems to be to drag anything and everything about NZ down, then that person would NOT be welcome here and I would refer them to Expats Exposed. It's all about balance in order to make an informed decision and remaining within the primary focus of the site.

Hope that made sense?

Offline Chan in Wellington

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2010, 09:37:44 am »
Great post Nolan
'The only difference between a rut and a grave, is the depth'.

SA Going to NZ Advice Forum

Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2010, 09:37:44 am »

Offline Feather

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2010, 09:45:50 am »
Well said Nolan.

It is vital that everyone is able to tell others about their experiences, the good, the bad and the ugly.  And everyone has different experiences, some worse than others. Centurionite's experiences have really been far worse than mine for example. So she has a right to express her disappointment in NZ to those of us that are in NZ and those considering a move.  Life in NZ isn't all moonshine and roses. 

Offline ronaldd

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2010, 08:58:39 pm »
It is ironic that this thread is called "Tolerance Please"... (note the complete absence of laughing emoticons)
Laughing icons by some on some serious topics could come across as condescending or sarcasm.

my work mates are great!!!!,  and you are in a company full of foreigners so it seems that everyone is an outsider,  band of foreigners band together,  so your lack attachment make you a group.

I think what deep down still irks  me is when people with different skin color will always be called Indians(assumed non citizens).  How Muslim folks are assumed to be immigrants.  I think over 15 years of post apartheid race relations,  SA folks have become more  accepting of other cultures and races.  Even the most staunch pre-1994 "racist's" heart has gone a bit softer towards other races.  What bugs me is that we are outsiders,  and because of our history we are automatically considered racially motivated or racist,  regardless if we are white, brown or black.   Yet,  in NZ,  I have seen the worst racist comments and behavior in my entire life.  No specifically in my company, but from NZ folks.  I think its a personal issue i have with hipocracy and double standards.  It makes me cross how SA folks get judged because of the apartheid history and not for the SA present they left yet the same folks might say the most horrendous things against Maori, Aborigenees, Indians, fijiann(fijindians=fiji indians) and other countries.  Yet,  if you are a white New Zealand,  you seem to be exempt from a lot of these "labels"..   I label myself as a "bad" person ,  I don't pretend to be a little angel on every aspect of life,  but I always aspire to be a good person. 

before I get labeled as a person in the "unhappy camp".... I am not. No matter if you live in paradise,   if the neighbor's dog cr@ps on your lawn you will be pretty unhappy about the deed, but still be happy about living in paradise.  See it in context and not the general feeling about everything in NZ.  If some folks(except Nolan, he may , because its his site) choose to generalize a person's mood based on a specific gripe,  then there is nothing i can do ,  but I  recognize that its their right to make up their own mind,  but i recommend thinking of people a bit more complex than the last concern they raised.  It would be a bit shallow .I definitely think a bit deeper than just accepting the happy folks are happy in every aspect in life, there is always a balance in life This thread is not directed to you Schalk,  I mean everyone in general.  I just started the thread responding to you, the rest is generic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n63xaV88g9Y
Watch this video.  its a washing powder ad.  Is there a racist undertone?  Would people who are completely fine notice this is not about race?  Would folks who cry on Anzac day be very offended by this advert?  Do British folks get offended and Afrikaans folks laugh?  Or was the advert about the product's abilities.  If there was no historic sensitivity,  would the advert be seen in a different light?   It all depends on the person. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 09:02:36 pm by ronaldd »
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Offline SaKiwiBoer

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Re: Tolerance Please
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2010, 09:16:29 pm »
I just want to say something....
You guys are seriously getting serious around here lately...
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