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Author Topic: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude  (Read 3590 times)

Offline cyclewife

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Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« on: March 30, 2011, 02:45:06 pm »
Gee guys/gals - check what you're missing out on here in Sunny South Africa.
It makes me SICK  :envy:
(I know- emoticon for envy - but green for being sick works for me here)

http://multimedia.timeslive.co.za/videos/2011/03/blood-and-bullets-on-beyers-naude/
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Offline frodo/maya

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 05:46:01 am »
The thing that amazes me is that why do you burn and break things when you are not happy?  :furious:

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 05:46:01 am »

Offline Rover

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 01:12:51 pm »
The thing that amazes me is that why do you burn and break things when you are not happy?  :furious:

If that is what you've been taught since you were knee high to a tickey, and it starts to form a part of your culture, that will be all you know.  The same goes for so many other social behaviours, from manners to beliefs and is sometimes referred to as a "meme".

It features very strongly in our list of reasons to move.  A case of "rather the memes we don't know that the memes we do"...
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.
May we not live in Interesting Times.
I need a place to lay down, a place where I feel like I still exist. - Asp

Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 10:04:33 pm »
The thing that amazes me is that why do you burn and break things when you are not happy?  :furious:

If that is what you've been taught since you were knee high to a tickey, and it starts to form a part of your culture, that will be all you know.  The same goes for so many other social behaviours, from manners to beliefs and is sometimes referred to as a "meme".

It features very strongly in our list of reasons to move.  A case of "rather the memes we don't know that the memes we do"...

 :tickedoff: >:( Too true..
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Offline Feather

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 05:15:35 am »
And people ask why I would rather face earthquakes than the mess in SA!!  Thanks for the reminder of life in SA!

Offline Shirls

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 08:50:51 am »
EISH!!!

Man I don't miss that kind of behaviour... sorry for all still there wanting to get out, but man i  :hug:  :hug: NZ!

Offline Savayla

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 08:21:19 pm »
I'm sorry, been here a year and don't miss that stuff at all .  BUT  , I have to agree with them and how they did it.  How are they going to get the governments attention so that they are given better places to live with electricity, toilets and water.  Imagine bringing up your kids in a shack, especially in winter ?  I would burn and break.  As long as they don't kill .  If you looked at the riots in Greece, they did exactly the same thing.  When people are continually forced to live like that, they do turn to crime .

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 08:21:19 pm »

Offline Rover

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 12:13:02 am »
Normally you'd use your right to vote to get the attention of government, not violence and intimidation, but I suppose different people will find different actions acceptable.  After all, morality isn't absolute.

Yes, you should have the right to protest to attract attention to a particular issue, because things can go a bit wrong.  It happens all over the world, even in New Zealand, but that isn't an excuse to violate the basic rights of people that doesn't share your particular concerns.

Gandhi never advocated aggression, and yet he's gone down in history as a person that has influenced change towards better recognition of human rights for all people.
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.
May we not live in Interesting Times.
I need a place to lay down, a place where I feel like I still exist. - Asp

Offline Savayla

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 04:00:14 am »
After all, morality isn't absolute.



i take exception to that .  Morality has nothing to do with if you agree that if the government is not listening, you have to get their attention in another way.  Read my post :  If you were living in a shack, trying to raise your kids, no electricty, water, toilets, etc   What would you do ??  And if you are going to speak about Ghandi, what about his morality in terms of his sexual  liaisons with so many young women ?   Nothing is ever black and white.  There is always grey. 

Offline Rover

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 04:14:48 pm »
Savayla, it seems you may have seen my comments as a personal attack.  I apologise for that, it was not the intention.  Each person is entitled to their own opinions and quite frankly, I enjoy being correct so much I often change my opinion about things just to get it right.

And if you are going to speak about Ghandi, what about his morality in terms of his sexual  liaisons with so many young women ?   Nothing is ever black and white.  There is always grey. 

You're correct in saying it is gray.  So what if he had a couple of 'liaisons', it doesn't make what he achieved for human rights any less of an accomplishment, in fact, looking at the South African and Italian presidents it seems to be a prerequisite to have a bit of nookie on the side.

And that is a very good example of morality not being absolute, why then did you take exception?  If I understand you correctly, we actually agree on this?

Morality has nothing to do with if you agree that if the government is not listening, you have to get their attention in another way.

People often think morality only has to do with shagging around and 'easy' women, but it doesn't, shagging is only a small part of it, even if its a very popular part.

Morality is about behavioural conduct and what defines what is right and wrong.  In other words, we could have very different measures for right and wrong which could be influenced by an untold number of factors (religion, culture, education, social association, etc).  It is actually a lot more complicated than even that, but that will suffice for our current purposes.

The conduct of the kakistocracy is morally wrong by breaking their promises and not doing what people want, and so is the conduct of the protesters morally unacceptable in their reaction by breaking just about everything else that comes to hand.

Read my post :  If you were living in a shack, trying to raise your kids, no electricty, water, toilets, etc   What would you do ??

The truth is that I don't know what I'd do, and I can only speculate, but I cannot see myself acting like a Vandel without regard for others and their property.
Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.
May we not live in Interesting Times.
I need a place to lay down, a place where I feel like I still exist. - Asp

Offline Savayla

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 10:39:36 pm »
Good reply Rover. 

I think I did take it personally, as I am proud of my good morals, and no, this not to do with sexuality either !!!   :)    And I don't take away Ghandi's great work, but it was just a point of reference that nothing is ever black and white.  And since you brought him up.  It was not just nookie on the side, it was the way he said he wasn't but maybe he was, and that he was not being transparent about it all.  Not honest.  So morality comes in not through the nookies but through how he went about it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 10:47:49 pm by Savayla »

Offline cyclewife

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 10:47:17 am »
Enjoyed the debate here...

We won't know how we would react if we lived in a shack etc.. however - what erks me no end is when they are in fact GIVEN things & then they destroy them anyway... e.g. toilets in Cape Town - Zille kept her promise & had negotiated with them but still they wreak havoc & break everything.
And now this on Friday - a new school worth R 35 mill - totally vandalised.  So when you do give them what was agreed upon - they are still ungrateful  :tickedoff:

http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=63088

Medicals Done - 31 Aug 2011
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LTBV approved - 10 Feb 2012
Passports sent - 10 Feb 2012
Passports received with visa - 20 Feb 2012
House sold - 25 Feb 2012
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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 10:47:17 am »

Offline SaKiwiBoer

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 05:06:53 pm »
So when you do give them what was agreed upon - they are still ungrateful  :tickedoff:

That problem exists since the "white's" and "black's" met in Africa. Ask old Piet Retief...  ::)
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Offline Feather

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 08:50:59 pm »
I agree totally with Cyclewife! 

Offline Savayla

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Re: Blood & bullets on Beyers Naude
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 11:06:06 pm »
Cyclewife, you are completely right, but this was not the issue that was being debated.  I just saw photos of a crowd of students in London, throwing rocks and bottles at Prince Charles and Camilla in their car, as they were upset that their fees had gone up.  Hmmmmm, any comments ?