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Author Topic: Thinking NZ  (Read 534 times)

Offline KJ

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2007, 12:26:18 PM »
Yes well fact of the matter is that it is difficult to find a "standard" in SA. Seems like most things are below par. That goes for infrastructure, workforce capability, the issue of corruption, the list is endless.
I have heard from people that the standard of living in NZ is lower than in NZ. That there are more lower middle class people than in SA. Is the cost of living that expensive? And whats the biggest culture shock to get used to??

Offline Didi77

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 10:26:10 AM »
Going to get a better answer from the guys living there allready. I'm still stuck in Gauteng.

But my sister always say I must remember that NZ is an island. Every thing is slower, lower and less hassle... :D




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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 10:26:10 AM »

worsie

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2007, 11:55:28 AM »
I have heard from people that the standard of living in NZ is lower than in NZ. That there are more lower middle class people than in SA. Is the cost of living that expensive? And whats the biggest culture shock to get used to??

Hi Kj, I am presuming that you mean that the standard of living in NZ is lower than in SA????

More lower middle class people in NZ than SA? Thats really not true. The main thing what i think you have to consider is this, when living in SA you are living amongst the better off, we all tend to forget about the huge amount of poverty in SA and the fact that the whites only make up about 5% of the total population of SA, we also forget that the whites are now such a minority. (sorry i hate using the term whites, i actually mean non blacks) Taking that into account, the standard of living for all new zealanders is much higher in NZ than SA, there is just no poverty here, or very little. Another thing you have to take note of is that most of the people here are middle class and this is where most south Africans coming here will fit into. Its true though I think that many south Africans have a better standard of living in SA than the middle class in NZ. Most south africans arriving here will fir into the middle class. I don't think its possible for a family to emigrate without having to downscale quiet a bit in the beginning, that aside the advantages of living in NZ and raising a family here outweighs SA completely, free schooling, free good quality health care, and the most important of them all, very little crime, the list is endless actually.

The cost of living is expensive, yes and no, it depends on so many things, some times in the shops i look at the price of something and i want to choke (still multiplying everything by 5.5). Other times I cant believe how cheap things are. Takeaways are very expensive here and i know already that we not going to be having them as often here as we did in SA, groceries are about the same price as SA with the exceptions here and there, cellphone calls here are a lot more expensive than SA, especially if you are on prepaid. Silly little things are expensive, plugs for your appliances $3 each, i bought 3 wall hooks yesterday for $5. Good quality clothes are expensive, It costs me $75 to fill my 45litle tank with petrol, i get about a week and a half out of that (rav4 4wd which is heavy on petrol though). Parking in town costs me $7 per day, this works out to be a hell of a lot of money just to get to work and back. Unlimited train tickets from my house to town and back for a months costs $140. It pays to use the public transport system and even though i hate riding the trains I have now decided that I am going to use them, will just have to get use to it. Insurance here is so cheap, I pay about $50pm for the car and householders. Appliances are more expensive, but again it depends. If you smoke, give it up before coming here, its like $12 a box!!! beer and wine is also much more expensive.

For me the biggest culture shock so far has been the weather, the houses, the lack of good shopping centers etc..

In SA i think we were lucky enough to have been able to class ourselves as above middle class, we had a nice house in Cape Town, in a nice suburb, living the so called high life but in constant fear all the time and the continue worrying about the future of our daughter. The so called high lifestyle will now be gone, but its a good trade in my opinion to know that i can finally sleep through the night without the constant fear of someone breaking in, to think too that our daughters have a future here and they will never be discriminated against. In NZ i would probably now class myself as just middle class. But guess what, the kiwis here don't care, they appreciate you for who you are, and not the kind of car you drive etc.. Overall NZ is a great place, think long term, what are those middle class people in SA going to be doing in the next 10 years? And what class are they going to fall into then?



« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 12:43:04 PM by worsie »

Offline Shaz

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 01:08:54 PM »
very well said worsie!!  :clap:

Welcome to the site KJ and  :gl:



Badprop

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2007, 03:13:39 PM »
Excellent reply Worsie.  Also remember the country only have a 3.5% unemployment figure.  This means there is growth and economic stability and less poverty.  The state also spend the money well and don't pocket it like here, this is obvious in the maintenance of the roads and the infrastructure is well kept unlike here.

In all the country is being run like a first world country.  As worsie said money is not what makes a person and with the many boats and yachts moored everywhere there are people with money but it is not flashed in your face, like it is here.  I got the impression people are more concerned about their quality of life than the materialistic pitfalls.

Offline jafa77

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2007, 09:10:17 PM »
Excellent post Worsie. I think that really sums it up.

I grew up in the Northern suburbs of Joburg, nice house and pool, went shopping at Sandton City and Hyde Park, really lived the good life. A life of privilege that you generally will not have in NZ. If you like living like that behind big walls and electric fences then it is probably best you stay in SA because you may not like NZ.

Worsie mentions the houses, weather and lack of shopping malls as downsides.....well, yes that is mostly true.

For example.....Rotorua has not had one day over 20C since April........and it is almost October. Temps still sitting round the mid-teens......the sun does shine often but it can also be wet. Summer is lovely though, and with daylight savings starting today the long summer evenings are awesome.

Houses can be old and cold and wooden......no cheap black labour here! BUT I have been to some beautiful houses of friends which compare very well to SA houses. Depends if it is a new area or not.

Shopping malls......Rotorua is a small town so we dont really have a proper mall. Auckland has some nice ones....like the Westfield malls but they are not nearly as big as Eastgate or Sandton City. Remember this is just a little country with 4 million people.

BUT I love it here. And I am sure all of you potential Kiwis will too. Come on over!





worsie

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2007, 10:47:32 PM »
Money is most definitely not flashed around here, in fact you would probably be frowned upon if you tried flashing your money around. You can see it in the type of cars people drive etc. On the roads here you do not see as many luxury cars as you do in SA, the cars are not bad they mostly just normal cars (5 year old toyota corollas etc, here and there a newer model, bmws and mercs are very rare). You right badprop, quality of life here is very important, people are always out doing things with their kids and doing things as families. I have also found that here the trend is not to go out drinking and partying after work with work colleagues but to rather go home to the family. Sure there is the odd beer here and there etc, but once thats over people want to get home to there families.

The shopping malls here are actually not really that bad, I just find them old in comparison to what we have in SA. I think SA is big on shopping malls because they create a safe environment to shop, in NZ you don't need that so shopping malls here have never taken off. Hey there is a reason why the biggest shopping center in the hemisphere is in now in soweto. Do you remember the days in SA where people use to say they going into town? My gran and grandfather still use that term. Well thats what its like here now. The city center in wellington is like one big shopping center actually, it has lots of shops and you can walk around for hours on end browsing through everything. The few malls are more comparable to the older malls in SA, florida mall in florida is a fine example.. (dont know if anybody has been there but maybe you get the point). They old, but well maintained and never had to be be taken down to make way for something newer. Then there is a nicer shopping center here, but its really far from where we live, its new and its probably about the same size as Constantia mall in CT.

Hey rotovegas, i dont think we have had a day here over 16 yet????  :-\

And i think you summed it up nicely by saying that people should rather stay in SA if they prefer living that high life, problem is how much longer are they going to be able to live like that. The majority is pushing all the time for it to end and for the wealth to be shared, how much longer until that bubble bursts?

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2007, 10:47:32 PM »

Offline jafa77

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 11:07:07 PM »
Exactly. I dont think it will last for much longer. A more left wing, COSATU-Communist faction of the ANC will take over one day and embark on a really socialist agenda. This will become easier when more whites have disappeared overseas. The black middle class is only a few million at most and the really poor people number over 25 million.......at some stage these people in squatter camps will force the middle class blacks from power. It is a scary prospect for the country.

You are right about the cars.....very very few fancy cars around. Just normal family cars and lots and lots of second hand Japanese imports (like mine!!). Cheap! I would rather put my cash into a nice property that grows in value than a BMW that loses value immediately. I think most Kiwis agree. I know some people with really nice houses but driving ancient cars. There is NO embarrassment about that. You will need to change your mindset very quickly when you get to NZ. You will find it very hard to make friends if you want to flaunt your wealth. It is frowned upon.

I love Wellington's CBD.....I love walking round Courtney Place and just watching the world go by. SO much better than a mall. Even here in Rotorua I love walking down the main street looking in little shops. It is like 1970s, 80s South Africa before the CBD's were overrun and destroyed.

Our "mall" is really just a collection of shops (with separate entrances) with a big car park round them all. It has the Warehouse(Dion, Game), Woolworths(supermarket), a food court, music shops, book shop, some clothe shops, Harvey Norman, Farmers (like Edgars), big sports shop, and a few other electronic shops. Also a Burger King, McDs, Pizza Hut and video shop nearby. Everything you need really.

We had 18C a week or two ago. Really felt HOT! I like winter but really looking forward to summer now.


Offline KJ

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2007, 07:25:22 AM »
hey hey its Monday again :(
Thanks for all your comments, I really appreciate all your honesty and frankness. Its nice to get straight answers. I have so many questions, and i hope you guys will forgive me for jumping around on questions and "issues". Every now and again I pick up on something else again and I start thinking all over again.
I understand your explanation regarding the cars, wealth etc, I will admit i was brought up in a privileged home, probably upper middle class in Pretoria, not rich or wealthy at all, but as a family we always put a high premium on good food, a good homely environment and the outdoors. Ok, so I suppose the only safe option left is good food (which is becoming expensive), but thats just to sketch my background.
It would actually be fab to live along people who dont really care that much about money, cause it never really impressed me much either although its always been a part of South African life. You are what you own, and thats quite sad!

Some more random questions from my side: Are NZ people alot different to us ie is it difficult to get accepted?, why is it that the houses are so "different" and not that great in general? If they have a 1st world society, why dont they better it and make it nicer? Why is it that some stuff is so expensive? Is it better to first fly over and see what its like or will a type of "holiday impression" be false in any event? Is it better to try and hook up with fellow ex South Africans or better to leave your SA sentiments behind and hook up with locals? What is discipline like in NZ? I've heard there was a huge story about giving your kids a hiding etc? But in general do people treat each other with respect or is the youth like the general youth in Europe - liberal, illdisciplined and bad mannered? Dont you some times feel you're stuck at the end of the earth on an island far far away from everything?
Erm i have loads more questions. Think this is good for now :)
Dont read anything alterior in the questions please, they're just popping up in my mind. I am by no means judging or saying things are better here, I'm just trying to figure things out ...






Offline jafa77

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2007, 07:44:26 AM »
Try to answer a few of them....

Kiwis are similar to Saffers in many ways....BBQ, rugby, outdoors etc but still different.....thats just normal. I think Saffers fit in very well here and Kiwis generally accept people if you dont harp on about South Africa all the time. Its good to support the ABs and love NZ. They really hate it if you talk bout SA all the time.

Houses just smaller and often made out of wood. I am used to modern new houses with landscaped gardens and pool. (and big walls). So they just feel different. And can be cold if badly insulated. However, many new houses are on par with SA houses. Remember there is NO cheap black labour here for building huge mansions and keeping gardens and houses clean. Labour is expensive in NZ!!! Therefore smaller.

I dont find "stuff" expensive at all (except if you like to drink and smoke). Wine is affordable for me. I dont smoke but a packet is $10-$12 which is more than R50. BUT remember when you earn NZ$ then all that is normal.

I came over 1st but there is no real need to. Look at pics and do lots of research on the net.  Always good to get a feel for NZ before you move if you can afford a trip.

I have Kiwi and Saffer friends (and lots of UK ones too). Expats often stick together. Make an effort with the Kiwis. Join a club or school PTA or something. You will soon fit right in. Forget SA exists and dont mention it unless asked.

Discipline is much better than UK in schools but depends on school. Rich communities=good schools, no problems. Poor area=bad discipline.

There is an anti-smacking law in NZ but it is generally ignored unless you cause real physical harm to your kids (like marks and bruises). A smack or light hiding will not be prosecuted (unless you have a militant child who reports you).

I think Kiwi kids are great. I was used to 7 year old swearing at me on buses in London. Havent seen that kind of thing in NZ. NZ is still quite old fashioned in many ways. But kids are streetwise and know their rights too.

SA is also stuck far away from everything unless you like Africa. I dont!!! Australia is 3 hrs away and there are loads of tropical islands nearby to holiday on. Travelling is really affordable.

Just some thoughts in response to your questions.....hope it is helpful.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 07:50:50 AM by rotovegas »

Offline Nolan

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2007, 09:53:57 AM »
thanks for the great replies guys O0

Offline Shaz

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 08:26:59 PM »
Thanks for the reply Rotovegas! It is really helpful



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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 08:26:59 PM »

Offline jafa77

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 08:39:57 PM »
No worries. I am on hols at the mo so lots of free time.

Offline Johan01

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Re: Thinking NZ
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2007, 12:13:04 PM »
 ::) ;D :whistle: :confused: :-X

 

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