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Author Topic: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...  (Read 1304 times)

Offline janwswan

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To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« on: December 31, 2009, 11:11:44 AM »
Hi All

This stay or go division of the forum is probably the most important!
We had our PR interviews in Nov 09 and expect to receive our PR visas in June. Then we have to be in NZ in June 2011.

I am so scared to take the step, since we are so happy in SA, we don't want to go!
The question is do we have to?  Our first born arrives in June 2010, and what would be best for him/her?
We started the process as an insurance policy, but we have to use it before it disappears. 

My wife works in the medical sector, and I am in agriculture, science and academics.  She would easily get a job, but I don't want everything to get down her again.  I actually want her to work half a day if necessary, and me to be the sole provider.  And she is someone that really needs to be assured of security (financial and emotional).  We won't leave SA if I don't have a job first.

How are NZ's retirement funds? Can one retire at 60 with a decent pension?

This is a lot of loose thoughts and strings that would have to come together at some stage!
A would really appreciate any help in this regard!


Offline SaKiwiBoer

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 06:14:13 PM »
janwswan - what can I say?? Nothing mate.
The choices in your life is the choices that YOU have to make and they are the choices that YOU have to live with. Nobody can tell you what to do. Everybody can tell you what they did, or, what they are busy doing, or what they are going to do, but they can tell you nothing what YOU should do.

What I can do is ask you why do you need an "insurance policy" if you're happy in SA?? Why did you go through this whole "rollercoaster ride" of immigration if you do NOT want to leave SA??

Just one thing about this "insurance policy" of yours, it doesn't disappear, it expires, it is still there, you just can't use it anymore.

But like I always say:"Man live by choice only", and it seems there are a few in your future that you as a person and you as a family will still have to make and   :gl:  with that. Cheese and enjoy. SAKB.
21/03/2007-EOI submitted
18/07/2007-Selected from the Pool
07/03/2008-Receive ITA
15/05/2008-ITA Submitted-(hou duim vas)
11/12/2008-PR GRANTED-(thanx a lot!!!)

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." (Benjamin Franklin)

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 06:14:13 PM »

Offline expat

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 10:08:04 PM »
The debate that goes on in many Saffers lives. It is so that you will have to make up your own mind and more important live by those decisions it helps airing your thoughts and getting factual and subjective input from others. It however also can become confusing because as with everything in life there are different views. Things also in SA and NZ turn out differnely for individuals. My 2cents worth having emigrated and retruned is that if your life is good in SA and you think it is sustanable I would be loath to go. On the ohterhand if you had great opportunities in NZ I would consider it. It took us more than 3 years to decide to go - we went reluctantly and when I was headhunted it took us 3 hours to decide to come back. Needless to say it was traumatic and expensive but at least we know for ourselves it was not for us. Good luck with your deliberations.

Offline janwswan

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 06:26:47 AM »
The thing is just: What if the "popo hits the fan" in SA and we did not go, what am I going to tell my child?
We had the chance but did not go? I am a person that try to reason out stuff with a logical mind.  My mind says that after the Soccer world cup everything is going to go downhill in this country...  But I am a believer, and I know that for God anything is possible, and through faith and constant prayer, God would show us the right path.
I will always strife for the better, in all I do, and to give my family the best that they can have.
Thanks for the comments thus far, it is so important for me to hear not only about other people's experiences, but also what is going on in their hearts!

If your heads and your heart is in the right direction, you would not have to worry about yor feet!!

Offline zatexnz

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 10:12:06 AM »
Hi there, Janwswan!
As you say, you're a Believer, and THAT, friend IS your answer.  As others here have said, you will find as many different pieces of advice and experiences and reasons to stay or go, as there are people!  Actually you'll find double.. because there's always the "what if's": what if we had stayed? What if we went?  What if we don't like it?  What if we can't afford to come back?  Or, I wish...

The answer as a Believer, is not to look at the circumstances or the What-if's.  It is to ask Father God what His will is for you and your family. 

The fact that you have been approved in principle (as I understand?), is quite a big thing.  For many this is a far more difficult process, but as your wife works in the medical arena, she is sought after in any country, and therefore you've had the privilege of coming through relatively easy (or at least so it seems from what you've told us). 

I would like to make the following suggestion.  And this is a suggestion only! :)

Go through with getting the PR in your passports when the time comes.  When Babes arrives, enjoy him/her and make sure the Grandies get to see Babes and enjoy him/her.  Wait  a few months for Babes to grow a little, and then come over to NZ to take up the residency (around Nov - before Dec peak times!).  At least then you have it in your passports that you ARE residents.  Come and check out the place, if you can afford to, for a few months.  Make contacts, take a look at the job market and the options. Get a feel for it.  Perhaps by then you'll have peace in your hearts anyway for whether it's God's idea to move here or not.  You can still return to live in SA.  I'm not sure what the requirements are to retain residency, you'll have to read that up, but you can live a large portion in South Africa, and still retain it.  At least give yourself that option.

The choice for whether it's best for your children to raise them in SA or in NZ, is a really hard one.  Let's weigh up the pro's and con's and you can add some...

PRO's for moving to another country (NZ or wherever)
Your children get to grow up without the ongoing fear of being mugged around every corner. (not that this is necessarily true of all areas of SA either!).
They get to riding bikes in the neighbourhood and opening room windows that don't have burglar bars on, not living in jailed home.
They get to going to university where the degree is more readily recognized than SA ones (not that this seems to be a major problem right now, but the education system is going downhill there too, and it seems that more and more, countries are wary of SA degrees being on a par with theirs).
They get to growing up with diverse nationalities and not necessarily looking at other skin colours as something to be feared, but something that is part of the diversity of God's creation.
They generally grow up with a broader worldview than most kids whose parents have never moved further away from their home town than a few hundred km's.

As for work for you:
In the medical field your wife will always be on the "wanted" list.
In the agricultural/science field, you will also be sought after, esp here in NZ, where there is still a very live agricultural culture.  (Esp here in the Waikato where we live! :) )
Where pensions are concerned, depends on how young you are.  As far as I can see, personally, no country has a very secure "pension" scheme, and it is always a wise move to invest in your own Retirement Annuity and not depend on government. (that is my personal opinion and may differ from others!)

There is a lot that NZ has to offer in outdoors recreation that is free and mostly without fear from "predators".

That said, NZ is not perfect, as is the case with any country in this world that you may choose to look at.

The CON's:
You move to a new country, where you have to build new friendships from scratch, and it takes a lot more effort than it did back home.
Your marriage WILL be tested.  The foundations of your marriage will be shaken, so be sure they were built on the Rock!
Your kids get to grow up without the family close by - you have to hire sitters when you want to go out, you can't just dump the kids on Grandma or Sis.
You move to a country where the government is wanting to govern how you raise your kids in the home (but I've heard this is happening in SA too anyways).  The thing to remember is, stick to what you know is true, and trust God to sort out the rest. (BTW, He gives you new friends and family too!  O0 )

PRO's for staying in SA.
Your kids get to growing up close to their grandparents, and perhaps even cousins. 
You have friends around you that have been part of your culture and history and when you get together you enjoy a shared history and understand each other's jokes.  (but that can be found here in NZ too, there's enough of a Saffer invasion here! ;) )
If you know that staying is what God wants you to do, your kids will grow up knowing God's protection.

Quote
What if the "popo hits the fan" in SA and we did not go, what am I going to tell my child?
You'll tell your child the truth - that you made the decision you thought was best at the time.
And that will also be the answer, if you do decide to move, and your kid asks years down the line, but why did you leave SA, where our grandparents are?  Why couldn't we grow up around family?  Same answer, because that is what we felt was the best decision.

It will be a lot easier to answer those questions, if you and your wife sit down together and pray, and wait on God's guidance.  Then when the kids start asking those questions, you can answer them with confidence, "We did what we did, because we were being obedient to God's calling."

I've done this whole thing twice.  Once without children, as an exciting adventure with my husband; with the idea that if we didn't like it we could come back.  9 years later, we did it again, this time with 2 children.  Let me tell you, moving countries with kids is not easy, esp if they are too young to understand why we need to move.  And having to not only cope with making friends for yourself and making inroads into the new culture for yourself, but helping your children through the process too.  It's a hard road to walk.  I'd say we've had our fair share of "sakke sout saam opvreet"!   ;D

All the best Janwswan!  At least you have time on your hands to make this decision!

(sjoe... didn't mean to make such a lengthy post, but hope it helps somehow!)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 10:13:37 AM by zatexnz »
lekker sweet as, y'all
~ Colleen

Offline janwswan

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 12:16:54 PM »
Sjoe Colleen,

Thankyou so much for the advice and guidance!!  It is very much appreciated!
It is as you say, it is best to be in God's will and have such a relationship with Him, that we will hear His voice clearly, and understand His plans for us more deeply!

My wife and I are going on holiday at the end of Jan, and will then make real time to seek for answers and discuss everything around the big move.

Offline frodo/maya

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 01:49:36 PM »
Hi,

We know how you feel.........believe me, we also went for the interviews in Nov and got our PR, the only difference is that my kids are 14 and 10 and we have to make the move soon.... pressure!

We regard this as a HUGE adventure, the world is only so big, we ask God to give us guidance everyday as to what He would like us to do and the signs are very clear, we are going to move to NZ. Your rollercoaster ride just began, goodluck we can identify with the feelings that you are going through  :-\

See ya and keep us updated.

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 01:49:36 PM »

Offline maanhaarleeu

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 06:34:16 PM »
Hi janwsman,
I agree with zatexnz.  Pop over for a visit if you can and get your passports stamped.
That way you still have 2 years after that to officially move which buys you some time.
If SA turns out for the worst after the SWC as per your fears, you then would not have
to start over again if you still want to go to NZ.

Good luck and keep us posted  ;)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 06:57:27 PM by voreilly »
Auckland NZ, Howick

Offline maanhaarleeu

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 06:41:26 PM »
Zatexnz, I thought that was a very good post and it definately was not too long  ;)
Auckland NZ, Howick

Offline zatexnz

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 11:53:19 PM »
thnx  :blush:
lekker sweet as, y'all
~ Colleen

Offline Nolan

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 09:41:13 PM »
Jan, this is now a tough one.

If you are happy in SA then in my opinion your mindset is not right to emigrate. I suggest you guys come over for a LSD trip first, so maybe come here for an LSD to activate your PR, have a look around and decide then.

This whole process is not easy and especially in the beginning it is often only the fact that you feel you have no choice to go back that keeps you here, so if you don't have that feeling your chances of not giving it a full go will be very slim. and unless you have bucket loads of money it will cripple you financially to come here, return to SA and possibly even come back to NZ again.

Kom hierna toe en kyk eers of dit regtig is wat julle wil doen voor julle sak en pak hier opdaag en besef dis nie vir julle nie

Offline robcraignz

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:38:42 AM »
Just noticed that someone had mentioned there is a fair number of Saffers here in NZ. Beginning 2009 met Greg Albertyn (really nice coloured gent when I asked him in Afrikaans, what he did for a living, felt a right wally when he told me he is the SA counsular general - lives in the street behind us in Whitby) who said that at that time some 40 000 ex Saffers here - mostly around Auckland. There is an Afrikaans church in Christchurch. If you move around Porirua City centre or Mega Centre on a Saturday morning, guaranteed that within the hour you will hear Afrikaans being spoken. Got a good SA butcher and biltong supplier down in Linden / Tawa. Told / joked with Hekia Parata (National MP in Mana) before National came to power, that she needs to start firming the way that Afrikaans is brought in as a national language - almost as many Saffers as Maori. We are here and in force, seems increasing rapidly in numbers. Kiwis really like the Saffers in the main, but on the odd occasion have encountered 'n regter poephol of twee wat ons naam gat maak. Mostly we are seen in a good light and hard working. Long may that vision continue for the benefit of those here and those wanting to be. :welcome:

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:38:42 AM »

Offline Rockhopper

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 01:27:21 AM »
Rob there is an Afrikaans church in Plimmerton/Whitby as well!  We go to The Rock Church in Ngauranga Gorge and there is a LOT of South Africans there as well.

Agree with you on hearing Afrikaans in Porirua Mega Centre - I have scowled my son a couple of times in that Pak'nSave only to find out half of the shoppers can understand me!

The butcher in Linden did not impress me very much - a bit pricey and his boerewors was not worth the price per kg!  Apparently there is a bit of history there, the previous guy who owned the butchery was excellent (so I heard through the grapevine of Saffers that has been here longer than 5 years).  I make my own boerewors and found good replacements for almost everything else!

But you are right in saying there are a lot of South Africans!

"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
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Offline robcraignz

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 09:12:25 PM »
Hi Schalk,
Yes, the Pak 'n Save Porirua is the perfect place to brush up on Afrikaans. I do concur re the butcher in Linden, didn't know the previous one though. However, have noticed and voiced my interest at the "world famous" boerewors at The Mad Butcher. Not sure how world famous, but do approve of the quality (Porirua centre next to Peppermill). P n S also have some reasonable boerewors / SA sausages from time to time. This is the point I made to my wife recently, we arrive in NZ and the next thing you know they are making boerewors. Not just well done for their marketing and sales prowess, but ten thumbs up for making the effort to try and accommodate us HESA's. I am impressed that they go that extra mile to make you feel at home - and make no mistake we do :twothumbs: :twothumbs:. My wife doesn't want to return to SA even for a visit. Well done the Kiwis, for being so in tune with the wants and needs of not only your people, but also the immigrants. :clap:

Offline Rockhopper

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Re: To Go Or Not To Go... That Is The Question...
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 09:47:54 PM »
Agree with you Rob - We frequent that Mad Butcher quite often.  They have some nice specials sometimes.  Prestons just next to Pak 'n Save apparently also makes a good boerewors - but this is on hearsay only as I have not tried it to testify.

I noticed that boerewors at the Mad Butcher and just on looks it does not look too shabby.  I have not had the guts to try it though, as we had a rather "nasty" experience with some countdown "boerewors" that was just awful!

I also love the fact that they try and accommodate (maybe demand forcing supply??) us Saffers with some of the products.  I think more and more Saffers come over with experience so you will get people knowing how to make boerewors eventually working for PaknSave and the rest.  Soon you will have a boerewors competition at PaknSave or Countdown!!??

The only thing that gripes me is that PnS in Porirua does not have an international isle.  The one in Upper Hutt apparently does.

What I found is that sometimes (just sometimes) you get that the "international" products being cheaper than its local counterparts!  We have seen Freshpak Rooibos at Woolworths in Johnsonville being cheaper than the other Rooibos brands which are not as good.  Also when those products in the international isle reach their due date, they tend to offer some really nice specials - And we who are from Africa do not scare easily when it comes to due dates!!  :P
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
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