a good (long) read / balanced view

[magusta]

i chanced up this forum, give it a read.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/new-zealand-expat-forum-expats-living-new-zealand/39453-observations-about-some-downside-new-zealand-3.html

[LoveNZ]

did you post that Magusta?

[LoveNZ]

sorry, just saw now that it was not you:-)

[thombatt]

The good thing about NZ is that it doesn't stop any immigrant from leaving, or any citizen from leaving (at least to Australia.

There are no exchange control restrictions, like RSA. One can take all of one's money and invest it anywere in the world, at any time.

There are no restrictions on leaving the country, unless there is a court order issued against you. the only time anybody is stopped from leaving is if they are suspected of a crime.

It is not NZ, the NZ government, or the NZ people's fault if people fail to do their homework and find out about the country before they come. It is not NZ, the NZ government or the NZ people's fault if people do not find what they are looking for when they move to NZ.

I like NZ. I'm very happy here. I made a trade off between what I had in RSA and what I would potentially have in NZ and the UK and decided to move to Nz.

If people are not happy about what happens in NZ there is nothing to stop them from becoming a citizen and then standing for parliament, and then changing everything to what they want. The only thing stopping them is that they have to get the majority of NZ voters to agree with their view.

That's called democracy. NZ has it, many other countries do not.

[frodo/maya]

This dude comes from France for me coming from SA, NZ is way better in so many ways. One cannot have your bread buttered on both sides and to immigrate to another country you have to adapt to the different ways of things being done and get use to the products that you have to buy. I appreciate the link and I belong to this forum as well, the problem with the people on this forum is that they come from 1st world countries such as France, USA, Canada, Brittian etc. They were not pushed to leave their countries like we were to leave SA, they still have a choice to return, we (well my family and I ) can't and will not, at least not until some serious changes happen in SA. We have put so much on the line to be here that I will not put NZ down. If we don't make a success of this, it is surely not NZ's fault but our own.

Only my 2c worth, I am not motivating anybody to come to NZ not at all, this is my own perception. If people don't like NZ (which gave them a change to be here) they should leave and find somewhere where they are happy (I am not criticizing you and please don't take this personally    this is only my opinion)

[Wayne and Kath]

The dude would have a whole heap of fun living in a real third world place like Angola, or Zambia  .
 
Typical French, never anything good to say about anyone else, just winge and whine. (any French forum member excluded of course  )

[Savayla]

In all fairness, some of his points are valid.  But whether it should actually affect your quality of life, is well, sad. 

The rubbish ?  Can't say that I have noticed that at all.  He should live in SA or Malaysia.  It is the first things my girls commented on when we arrived.  It is so clean compared to where we have come from.

The quality and pricing of goods.  Yes, he is right.  Cheap stuff from China and expensive stuff from Europe.  We are getting ripped off.   But unless you are used to buying the most expensive brands in SA, you will do fine here.   Hell, I am not going to cry foul because I can only buy last years model kitchen mixer     You do learn to shop around, and you do learn to shop online.  I actually prefer that.   And you learn to only buy when there is a sale. 

Lifestyle being forced.  Nah, completely disagree.  Yet, we are living semi-rural ,  close to a city.  People here are more relaxed and if he had done his homework well, he would know that NZ is a farming community.    this is its background.  It is 20 years  behind.  And I personally like it that way, otherwise I would have gone to Oz, or even France, which was on our list. 

There is the tall poppy syndrome.  Face it and deal with it.  Make different friends who don't think that way.  There is lots of them out there.  He should have known that before coming here too. 

Regarding the sports.  Our girls have enrolled in the local athletics club.  They are not forced to compete in the interclub competitions, but they are encouraged to do their best, do better than their last attempt, and to win. 

The houses.  Yes, they are not the quality we are used to.  But, i will be moving into my 3rd house in NZ, and all of them have been nice in very nice areas.  The most expensive has been $350.  Not sure in Auckland though, think that is different. 

Clean and green.  Yes, unfortunately, NZ's image of being clean and green is mostly that, an image.  There is a lot going on that they don't want people to be aware of,  in the past and the present.  Anyone aware of the fact that NZ was responsible for supplying the chemicals which made  Agent Orange for the Americans during the vietnam war ??   

Anyways, this is just my point of view.  New Zealand is not utopia, and people must be aware of that .  I absolutely love it here, but I have done so much research and know most of its warts .  It did put me off for a long while, but I had to realise that in every country, including France, you will get problems.   I don't think I would like to be living in France now, with all their racial problems. 

From his post, it seems he should be living in the USA.  Where everyone wants bigger, better, and more . 

[magusta]

je suis hallucine? ces't incroyable! mais  tres bourgeois...alor, tant pis.

i speak only a little french, but did travel it extensively.  this post is to bright forward another point of view, but if you don;t want to read or think of the validity of some points...je suis indifférent

[zatexnz]

It's a good post, Magusta, as it's important to note that people from different backgrounds (even IN SA), will experience NZ differently.  AS to whether it's a "Balanced view", I would not quite say that.  It is a very biased view from one person who is conveying his experience, based on his own background and lifestyle expectancies.  I would rather say, as you did in your last post, that it's a "different perspective".  That many here may identify with his views, is fully understandable, and expected.

As Savayla says, NZ is NOT perfect!!!  One issue we have  a problem with here in Hamilton, is the amount of tagging (useless graffiti) on buildings and even people's private property (their garden fences/walls).  And the fact that it goes pretty much untended.  I know they are trying to fix it.  But perhaps they're trying more to treat the symptoms and not the root cause of the problem. 

I think it's important that when we decide to leave our home country, in this case South Africa, that we think very carefully about where we are going to go, and what that country has to offer according to our own expectations, preferences, etc.  NZ is admittedly one of the easiest countries to immigrate to in terms of immigration processes.  But we have to ALL remember that there is NO PERFECT country on this earth.  No matter where you go, you will find that there are things you don't like, don't really want to live with.  You need to tally up those things and decide whether it's a big enough issue to make you choose a different country, or whether it's something you can choose to tolerate.

In a way, Immigration is much like a marriage.  When you get married, the person you marry is not perfect and neither are you.  After the first while, you start noticing things the other person does that you don't like.  You could talk it out, but ultimately you can't change your partner, they must want to change.  Some things you decide to live with because you simply WANT to make the marriage work, and you know that that issue is really minor in the big scheme of things. 

So let's go back to tagging.  I really don't like it, but is it worth me choosing another country over that?  Is it something I can perhaps work towards changing... um let's see... perhaps I could get involved in some community projects to get to know the situation better, and ah... open a place where kids can find something better to do than get involved with drugs.  Educating the people who are living off the dole, to get them working and contributing toward society... hmm.... I realize that right now, I don't have that time or money available, so I decide to support the police and city council where I can, do what I can when I can, and for the rest of the time, I concentrate on enjoying the rest of life and giving priority to my family and their needs. 

Sure things are horrifically expensive in this place... hey, I spent 9 yrs in the States, so I was spoiled rotten there, and so things here seem to be so much more expensive than perhaps some of you who come straight from SA.  I know I can't go back to the States at this point, so I learn to adjust my expectations, and bargain-shop where I can.

And there are days I have to consciously remind myself of the GOOD things in this country.  Just like there are days that I have to consciously remind myself of the GOOD traits in my husband! 

[Awa]

I just gave you an extra respect point for that one Colleen - very well said indeed - I concur wholeheartedly. 

[Feather]

Colleen I agree with you wholeheartedly!

[magusta]

Hey Colleen,

You're right a different perspective is a better description, I guess with 'balanced' I meant that it offered a view of perspectives each from opposing sides of the scale - thus balance...

In marriage I courted and loved my wife, long before I married her. I think I had more of a 'crush' on NZ, and yes there's no perfect country however the things I don't like outweighs the things that I do.

With our prospective move ahead, we're well aware that it won't be a silver bullet. There's a good few things I cannot relate with here and don't want my kids growing up accepting as the norm either. Once they're of age, I'm certain that they will 'divorce' us and leave NZ in anycase. That would leave us in a place that we strongly don't like without our kids? No thanks. Sure there's opportunities here, but plenty more in other places.

In my opinion, NZ is a place to retire to or for a short visit. With record numbers of NZ'ers leaving for Aus (sure they may be expats with NZ citizenship) Something seems amiss.

I honestly can say that I did 'give it a go' but found it lacking.

I'm not trying to upset anyone, but it does grate when people don't want to accept that it's far from a rosey place. Better in many respects than a corruption filled crime driven place like SA, but far...very far from great. If I'm really indifferent I wouldn't post any of my feelings/experiences here.

I'm certainly in the unhappy camp, but did live in the happy camp for a long time too.

[Tui]

Very interesting read/topic and posts......



x

[jafa77]

well, I am in the happy camp.....and I can assure you that I am not blinded to NZ's problems.

I think if I lived out of Auckland I would possibly be in the uphappy camp. I am a big city person.

Auckland is amazing. Stunning city. On Saturday I hopped on the ferry to Rangitoto, did a walk, had lunch etc. Amazing warm weather and simply incredible being out on the water.

Yesterday went to Waiheke Island and rented a car. Drove around all day and stopping all over for the WOW shots. Had some wine at a vineyard and caught the 6pm ferry home. All day I kept thinking that I am so lucky to live here.

I suppose everyone's situation is different. Australia has its merits - and I honestly think that Australia is the only other country that Saffers really fit into. The US is so very different, Europe is cold and foreign, Canada is cold etc.
But for me Australia is simply too hot. Silly excuse perhaps but I truly HATE heat. It makes me miserable. Its great to pop over to Sydney or the Gold Coast occasionally but to live and work in a constant heatwave is not my idea of fun. I had that growing up in Port Elizabeth (with almost permanent water restrictions).

Just my opinion.

[SA3001]

I just gave you an extra respect point for that one Colleen - very well said indeed - I concur wholeheartedly. 

Me too - well put indeed